{"id":43869,"date":"2021-11-05T18:57:00","date_gmt":"2021-11-06T00:57:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/dh.durangoherald.com\/tj\/polis-says-the-rich-are-being-taxed-the-wrong-way\/"},"modified":"2021-11-06T00:57:00","modified_gmt":"2021-11-06T00:57:00","slug":"polis-says-the-rich-are-being-taxed-the-wrong-way","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/dh.durangoherald.com\/tj\/polis-says-the-rich-are-being-taxed-the-wrong-way\/","title":{"rendered":"Polis says the rich are being taxed the wrong way"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

\"Gov.
Gov. Jared Polis makes a point during a news conference May 20 in Denver. (David Zalubowski\/Associated Press file)<\/span><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/p>

Before being elected to public office, Colorado Gov. Jared Polis earned hundreds of millions of dollars as a tech entrepreneur. While serving in Congress before he became governor, he reported wealth that made him the third-richest member of the U.S. House.<\/p>\n

According to a story published Thursday by the investigative news outlet ProPublica, Polis is one of many ultra-wealthy politicians who have leveraged tax law to pay significantly less income tax than many of their constituents. ProPublica reported that Polis did not pay income tax in 2013, 2014 or 2015.<\/p>\n

When Polis joined Colorado Matters on Thursday for his regular check in with the show, host Ryan Warner asked about the ProPublica story. \u201cI have paid all my taxes required by law,\u201d the governor said. \u201cTo be clear, nobody is saying anything else. I also agree with the premise that the tax system favors the wealthy and big corporations.\u201d<\/p>\n

Polis offered some ideas for alternative taxes he said might yield more government revenue from the wealthy.<\/p>\n

In the conversation, recorded over video call, Gov. Polis and Warner discussed how hospitals across Colorado are overburdened by COVID-19, the Governor\u2019s plans for reelection and his thoughts on instituting broad tax reform to create a fairer system.<\/p>\n

The following interview has been edited for clarity and length.<\/p>\n

Ryan Warner<\/strong>: We will start with COVID. You have often said that hospital capacity is your north star in determining what mandates, or other steps, are needed to control the virus. The Colorado Hospital Association is now saying that there is a monumental strain on the system, as it took new steps to manage patient transfers. Governor, what are the next specific steps you will take to try and slow the spread in Colorado?<\/p>\n

Gov. Jared Polis<\/strong>: We are at about 88 percent hospital capacity. Not great. And, normally you would like to be in the 70s, but not a hundred percent. We have to be very careful to make sure people are routed to the hospitals that have the space, have the room. Hospitals continue to do \u2014 at a slower pace, perhaps \u2014 procedures like knee surgeries and back surgeries. They are certainly still able to accommodate a certain number of those given the current caseload that they have. But, obviously, who wouldn\u2019t want to be at a lower number than 88 percent? But that\u2019s where we are today given the large number of unvaccinated folks that represent about 82 percent of the hospitalizations.<\/p>\n

Warner<\/strong>: We heard earlier in the program from an infectious disease expert at St. Mary\u2019s in Grand Junction who is braced for a worse November in Mesa County. She says the vast majority of those hospitalized are un-vaccinated. Are there specific steps that you feel you need to take in the next weeks to prevent a \u2014 I don\u2019t want to overstate this \u2014 cataclysmic November and December.<\/p>\n

Gov. Polis<\/strong>: The biggest thing that we are focused on is getting people vaccinated and protected, and the work continues on people getting their first and second doses, but you\u2019re going to a smaller and smaller group. I\u2019m thrilled that there\u2019s 3,000 to 4,000 people a day still getting their first dose. That\u2019s wonderful news that there\u2019s lower hanging fruit on the booster shot for everybody after six months. I got mine. The data is just off the charts on the level of protection that it provides you. So for those listening, and if it has been six months after Moderna or Pfizer, or two months after Johnson & Johnson, get that booster.<\/p>\n

The other new frontier we\u2019re so excited about: the 5- to 11-year-olds. As a father of a 10-year-old and a 7-year-old, I don\u2019t want them to get sick. It\u2019s often not as bad as adults, but nevertheless, there\u2019s 15 to 20 kids hospitalized for COVID almost every day in Colorado. I can\u2019t wait to get my two kids vaccinated. I plan to do it this weekend. And I encourage parents across the state who care about their kids, to get them vaccinated as soon as possible.<\/p>\n

Warner<\/strong>: As I mentioned, you issued an executive order that could pave the way for crisis standards of care. Guidelines hospitals can use to determine who gets what, when resources are limited: be it ventilators, ICU beds. You haven\u2019t invoked those standards yet, but do you expect to?<\/p>\n

Gov. Polis<\/strong>: The hospitals want to have it, and we have had it through most of the pandemic. It will be up to our Chief Medical Officer Dr. Eric France when to implement those. We are not anywhere close to being short of ventilators or anything like that. So, it wouldn\u2019t be about who gets ventilators. What it might be is when people are discharged, and exactly how they are giving care with nursing ratios and those sorts of things. If necessary, it will occur, because we are not going to overwhelm our hospital system. That\u2019s our commitment I make to the people of Colorado. We are at 88 percent, [but] we are not going to let it be a hundred percent. We\u2019re going to take steps \u2014 as we already have taken: we have requested FEMA teams coming in, we\u2019re trying to move the monoclonal antibodies out of hospitals into freestanding centers to free up space.<\/p>\n

Warner<\/strong>: We asked for listener questions, as we often do. Ann Roehrig from Arvada asked, \u201cI\u2019m wondering what the rationale is behind enacting the crisis standards of care at hospitals, but not implementing a statewide mask mandate. We know that COVID is airborne, so why not use an easy and effective tool in our toolbelt that can combat the spread?\u201d<\/p>\n

Gov. Polis<\/strong>: Well, we know that masks can be effective in delaying people from getting COVID. Roughly 50 percent reduction is what a constellation of the data shows in the rate of transmission. And the reason that they aren\u2019t more widely deployed \u2014 and by the way, I encourage people to wear a mask indoors around others, especially if you\u2019re unvaccinated. But, even if you are vaccinated, it\u2019s a good step if you\u2019re in a crowded place, and certainly follow local mask orders.<\/p>\n

Unlike last time around, where we did have to go with a statewide mask order, because it was the only tool we had. We have a much more effective tool, far more than 50 percent: the vaccine is [over] 90 percent effective. And there\u2019s an asterisk on that, Ryan, because it\u2019s really more than that. Yes, a mask can reduce the chance of you getting it 50 percent, vaccines can reduce the chance of you getting it to 90 percent.<\/p>\n

But there\u2019s more to it, and here\u2019s what I mean: if you wear a mask and get COVID anyway, the case of COVID you get is just as bad as if you weren\u2019t wearing the mask. If you get vaccinated and have a breakthrough case of COVID, the case of COVID is much less severe and much less chance of hospitalization or death. It doesn\u2019t render you invulnerable, but it increases your odds tenfold. And of course, wearing a mask is a good idea, but getting vaccinated is exponentially more important to protect yourself.<\/p>\n

Warner<\/strong>: You said in a press conference this week, that people who are not vaccinated have a \u201cdeath wish.\u201d And it made me think of an op-ed I saw out of Boston proposing that people who are not vaccinated pay more in health insurance premiums. Do you agree with that?<\/p>\n

Gov. Polis<\/strong>: Well, I know that some companies are doing that to reflect the increased risk. I think rather famously Delta Airlines did that early on. They said, \u2018fine, it costs us more to cover you. If you\u2019re not vaccinated, it\u2019s an extra 200 bucks a month.\u2019 From an economic perspective, it\u2019s certainly reasonable that people bear their own costs of increased risks that they are taking, rather than socialize it across people that are already vaccinated.<\/p>\n

Warner<\/strong>: Let\u2019s talk just a bit about vaccinating kiddos. On Wednesday, indeed, the FDA approved the Pfizer vaccine for those five to 11. To attend school, kids have to be vaccinated against a whole slew of diseases: diphtheria, measles, tetanus. Should COVID-19 be added to that list for school attendance at some point?<\/p>\n

Gov. Polis<\/strong>: I am so excited to get the approval from [CDC] Director Walensky on Tuesday night. My kids are 10 and seven. They are getting vaccinated this weekend. I know that there\u2019s some parents out there trying to book their kids\u2019 appointments; They will get those in the next week or two. The first few days, a lot of the slots are filled, but generally people are finding [appointments] for next week. We\u2019re doing some large mass events over the weekends, and our goal is to vaccinate at least half of 5- to 11-year-olds with the first dose by the end of January. We\u2019re working with everybody from sports teams to zoos to do that.<\/p>\n

I don\u2019t know where it\u2019s going with regard to what different school districts will or won\u2019t require. From our perspective at the state, and the epidemiological perspective, if we can reach 50 to 60 percent, that will make a major impact in reducing the transmission of the virus.<\/p>\n

Warner<\/strong>: Let me point out, though, that the vaccine requirements for those other diseases emanate from state law. I\u2019m pretty sure it was the CDPHE website that had the list of diseases that you have to be vaccinated against to attend school. Do you think it\u2019s the state\u2019s role to tell school districts this ought to be a proviso?<\/p>\n

Gov. Polis<\/strong>: Well, in saying that Ryan, I think it\u2019s important to point out that it\u2019s more like a default of what you should get for your kids, but any parent can opt out of those as well. They simply sign a paper that they don\u2019t want their kids to have it. So in practice, 90 percent of kids have that set of vaccines, maybe 95 [percent] in some school districts. So if this one were being talked about as one of the recommended doses, of course parents would still be able to opt out.<\/p>\n

Warner<\/strong>: But it doesn\u2019t sound like you would lead on that front, adding it to the list.<\/p>\n

Gov. Polis<\/strong>: Well, the list though, you describe it as required. I just want to make sure your listeners know it\u2019s not required to attend school. It is the default, or recommended course of vaccines. My kids had them. I encourage every parent to get their kid vaccinated, but in practice in Colorado, somewhere between five and 10 percent of parents sign an exception for that.<\/p>\n

Warner<\/strong>: Governor, ProPublica this morning released an investigation into your taxes under the headline, \u201cHow these ultrawealthy politicians avoided paying taxes.\u201d And it found that in 2013, 2014 and 2015, you paid zero in federal income tax, and that you found strategies to keep your taxable income quite low around 8 percent. When you have paid, should you be paying more in federal income tax?<\/p>\n

Gov. Polis<\/strong>: Well, first I think it\u2019s important to point out there\u2019s nothing that anybody has said in any article, other than that I have paid all my taxes required by law. To be clear, nobody is saying anything else. I also agree with the premise that the tax system favors the wealthy and big corporations. That\u2019s why I champion tax reforms for a better, fairer system. Including here in Colorado, where we actually delivered on reducing the income tax for every Coloradan then paying for that by closing loopholes that benefit corporations and the wealthiest. A several hundred million-dollar package that I was proud to sign, sponsored by representative Sirota and representative Weissman last year. So I think there\u2019s a lot of work to do, and we\u2019re doing better at the state level, but I hope that the Democrats in Washington use the reconciliation package as an opportunity to make our tax system more fair.<\/p>\n

Warner<\/strong>: Does that mean you want changes in federal tax law that would make you pay more? Is that what you\u2019re asking for?<\/p>\n

Gov. Polis<\/strong>: Yeah, look, I think that income is not the best way to tax the wealthy. I mean, there\u2019s folks like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk that will effectively never have income to tax because they have enormous gains; rather than recognize them, they can borrow against them.<\/p>\n

I have long, probably, ruffled feathers in the Democratic party by saying, we have got to get rid of this income tax. Or, at least decrease it, because frankly it\u2019s not a good way to tax the very wealthy. And instead we should look at a number of different things: you could look at pollution tax, a wealth tax, a value-added tax. Most other countries have figured this out better. And I think one of the reasons that we \u2014 not the only reason, but one of the reasons you see this larger gap in our country between the super wealthy and everybody else is because of our unfair tax system.<\/p>\n

Warner<\/strong>: What specifically, should you be paying more taxes on? That is to say, if you were to change federal tax law, how would you text yourself in a fairer system?<\/p>\n

Gov. Polis<\/strong>: Lately I have been more focused on the state tax law, Ryan, and we did make some progress, but federal, again, I would say that income and capital gains tax are not a good tax to have. You can decrease them or get rid of them altogether; I\u2019m fine with both. Here in Colorado, we have decreased the income tax twice \u2014 what do you replace that revenue with? I\u2019m open to a wide variety of ideas, but generally they fall in three main categories. One is some kind of pollution or carbon tax, which has the added benefit of helping to save the planet \u2014 what a great idea. The second would be some kind of wealth tax, perhaps on property above a certain level or other assets. The third would be a value-added tax, which would simply tax money at each stage of transfer and transaction, and the wealthy would pay a significantly higher amount, regardless of whether they are making income or not as they purchase things or move things around.<\/p>\n

So, it can be any one of those three. They are all better than the income tax, for sure. If your goal is to generate more government revenue in a more efficient way that doesn\u2019t discourage growth, like the capital gains and income tax do.<\/p>\n

Warner<\/strong>: According to this investigation, charitable giving brings down your tax burden significantly, and that\u2019s not a surprise. But they find that some of that spending paid for mailers that had your name all over them, and had \u201cthe feel of a campaign ad.\u201d This was while you were a member of the state board of education prior to running for Congress, did you use your charity to promote yourself?<\/p>\n

Gov. Polis<\/strong>: Well, that\u2019s a very cynical view, Ryan. For me, my public service is a core value. I never thought it would necessarily take me into public office. I started my foundation and work, and I have a passion for improving our schools in Colorado. I have started two public schools. Obviously, Ryan, I didn\u2019t name those schools the Jared Polis School; They are called the New America School and Academy of Urban Learning. Unless folks dig into the history, they don\u2019t often know that I founded and served as superintendent of New America School. I also started Community Computer Connection, co-founded Patriot bootcamp to give veterans new job skills. I\u2019m very proud of that work, frankly. If I never became governor, if I never became a Congressperson, those would be an even bigger part of the legacy of what I was trying to do to make Colorado an even better place.<\/p>\n

Warner<\/strong>: You have filed paperwork to run for reelection. Can you confirm for me that you\u2019re running and if so, will you release your taxes?<\/p>\n

Gov. Polis<\/strong>: Well, I think I filed the paperwork. I\u2019m looking at probably doing a reelection tour in January or February and visiting different parts of the state and hearing from folks. I\u2019ve already been getting out and meeting with folks. Just yesterday, I was in Pueblo, and I was in Salida the week before. In terms of reelection, I think the best thing that any incumbent should be doing is doing a good job. So, I strive every day to do a good job and hopefully that will be rewarded by the voters.<\/p>\n

If you recall, Ryan, going back to 2018 I had an opponent that didn\u2019t release his taxes. I think all candidates should be held to the same standard and I support requiring candidates to make additional releases whether it\u2019s their taxes \u2014 or when I was in Congress, we had very lengthy disclosures of our assets, which was also something I supported..<\/p>\n

But, it\u2019s also important to hold all candidates to the same standards. What I think doesn\u2019t work is if one candidate is doing it and another candidate isn\u2019t. And so, I will look at that. I don\u2019t want any of that to be politicized, but I\u2019m very happy to release everything that should be released by law.<\/p>\n

Warner<\/strong>: So you will do it if they do it, I hear you saying. We have just a few minutes left, and I want to make sure we have time to talk about your proposed budget: a $40 billion proposal. This is just \u2014<\/p>\n

Gov. Polis<\/strong>: I would add by the way, Ryan, they have (my taxes) \u2014 almost de facto, but shared. Because somehow ProPublica has them and they reported on them. I know you haven\u2019t seen them and they are not out there, but obviously reporters have seen them and they have reported on them. So I just wanted to point that out there, too.<\/p>\n

Warner<\/strong>: Thank you for that. To this $40 billion proposal. Again, the legislature will make the final choices, but beyond keeping the pandemic at bay, what is your single top priority, and why?<\/p>\n

Gov. Polis<\/strong>: One of the things I\u2019m most excited about, as a lifelong champion of public education, is we are increasing per-pupil student funding by $526 per student. One of the largest increases in history; highest per-people investment in history. What that means is, let\u2019s say a class of 25 students will have an additional $12,000 or $13,000 to invest in that classroom, whether it\u2019s teacher salaries, whether it\u2019s smaller class size, whether it\u2019s better resources.<\/p>\n

We also know that our cities are struggling with increased homelessness: Denver, Aurora, Colorado Springs. And we want to make an investment in partnership with our cities to substantially reduce homelessness, providing increased opportunities for residential drug and alcohol treatment, mental health treatment, and make sure that our streets are safe and that we provide the best possible care to help people recover their dignity and move forward in a self-sufficient way.<\/p>\n

Warner<\/strong>: Last year was one of the worst on record for ozone pollution, something you and I have talked about in the past, and you\u2019re proposing a program to help cut that $28 million to provide free public transit on bad ozone days. What evidence do you have that free tickets on transit will get people out of their cars?<\/p>\n

Gov. Polis<\/strong>: We do have evidence from other places that have implemented this. Ozone is at its highest during our summer months, related to heat. So, let\u2019s say June, July, August, as an example. We would have a program with local transit agencies \u2014 could be your local bus agency, it could be RTD, it could be others. We will partner with them and provide some of the money for a free transit pass for that period of time, which absolutely will increase ridership during that period of time.<\/p>\n

The real interesting question, Ryan, and what I hope also comes out of it, is lasting benefit beyond that. Meaning, once people get that habit and see how easy it is \u2014 for those who it is easy, if there\u2019s a bus route near where you commute or work. Will some of them remain riders once they are introduced to it on a free basis during the summer? There\u2019s a net benefit just during the ozone months alone to get those cars off the road. It will lead to cleaner air, but we\u2019re also hoping that it will inculcate that habitual use of public transit in a greater way.<\/p>\n

We want public transit to be more convenient. It\u2019s important to invest in public transit. We did that through a house bill 260, our transportation and infrastructure bill, which is very transit-oriented for the entire state.<\/p>\n

Warner<\/strong>: Governor. I want to thank you for your time and perhaps next time we can be face-to-face. Thanks for the remote connection.<\/p>\n

Gov. Polis<\/strong>: Looking forward to it Ryan. Take care.<\/p>\n

To read more stories from Colorado Public Radio, visit https:\/\/www.cpr.org<\/em><\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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